We have yet to see anyone meet Paine’s challenge that they can make a good full time living in an MLM without charging their downline for promotional materials or by selling tickets to conventions to promote the MLM.
True, there is one member here who was in an organization where she did quite well but she also stepped down when she learned more about what was going on overall with that organization and it’s also true the conditions in that group have changed since then
Yes, it’s good people are looking for jobs, although I haven’t heard anything about layoffs for people yet, just tight credit and a roller coaster stock market.
It’s also important to remember that overall there is little proof that MLMs provide any kind of stable jobs. In almost any organization they may talk about how easy and quickly one can rise to the top, but once you’re in, they talk about years of dedication and work, not about a quick rise up to the top. That means, in every case, even if honest success is possible, that someone starting work now in an MLM won’t be making a living at it for several years.
That is NOT the situation a caring person would want to put another human being in if that other person doesn’t have a job or needs money. It’s confusing long term possibilities with short term needs.
I agree. It isn’t. We’re not here to tell people about MLMs that work and it’s been stated many times, and is mentioned in the docs people are told to read that we don’t make any claim to being fair and balanced.
MLMs are dangerous and bad. The purpose of this group is not to find good ones, but to help people who have been burned by them in one way or another. For this group to help people find a good MLM would be like AA trying to help an alcoholic find a good wine.
Remember that 99%+ figure. You actually have better chances of making a killing on a weekend trip to Vegas than you do of succeeding in *any* MLM that you work hard at for 5 years. Consider that point carefully, then decide whether it’s wise to even invest any time into evaluating any MLMs.
I was just hoping we could be less critical of people who are trying to work. We have beggars out on the street daily that want us to give them our hard earned money, while they are capable of working, and we drop them a quarter without thinking we are helping them stay poor by giving them crumbs, but let someone with hope ask a question, and what I read I took as sarcasm. Sure they need to know get out now. or Been there with that company done that a scam too. I think that is more what people need to hear. The facts. Thank you for answering. Can I ask you this? Is there ANY mlm that does work?
But let me ask you this – read the post again, and tell me what help is being asked for here! The things I see are 1) Wants to join YTB MLM ($495) 2).upline making $7000/wk.
3). He’s not having much success with his recruiting and wants to know why (asks in a forum for people who have been burned by MLM! – one way or another) 4). Concludes by suggesting everybody should jump at the chance to “get paid to travel and get a tax break”.
All I really did was answer those questions – one way or another 😉
I don’t think that is appropriate, if I am wrong please accept my apologies. Be nice, these people are asking for us to help them. We can’t help them or anyone else if we act worse than the recruiters of the mlms. They are nice because they need the person, we need to know what is the new and up and coming mlms so we can check them out before we are recruited, and to see just how far the mlms are going to change their programs to keep going. I was once told that the mlms are started by the same people over and over and all the mlms are to the same peole. Is this true? If so is it a legal entity and if so we should reveal this.
At least from your posting, you are a pretty classic MLMer. Just the appearance of an opportunity is enough for you to part with substantial money.
And then of course, you cannot fathom why people you approach are more circumspect.
Your upline is making all the money from the product you and the other downline is buying. As for the rest, just do the simple math to see how much it would add up to if you could ALL make $7000 a week, and compare it against the entire revenue of your company.
MLM only works for the top so many people which I think can be established by how many join and retain their place or how many reorder each time. MLM does not work, and I am really wanting to know how they do this and people don’t sue them, or at least report them to the attorney general’s office in their state. The attorney Generals office will shut them down!!! The best advice I would give is for the recruited to address the plan with the sttorney Generals office before they join, and without letting the mlm know. If they pressure you then you can join, and in most cases within 3 days cancel. If it is over 25.00 it is my understanding you can cancel and they have to return your money. I got taken in by visalus. However they had to return my money because they say the product is all natural, it is not, and when I pointed out they are using sucrolose they immediately returned my money, and I stipulated they needed to
return all money including my shipping cost. They did. You need to use your attorney general they are paid for by your taxes. Trust me they work, and don’t play around with crooks. I can’t say, but one of the big cell phone cos did a name change because of not properly training their employees. The atty gen is about the only office I know of that really can make a difference! The BBB has no power. I don’t know why they waste time keeping that office open. You get better advice on rippoffreport.com. and everyone can read your gripe!
Just putting in my 2 cents worth.
You say you’re interested in joining, but then you say “my upline.” How can she be your upline if you aren’t in yet? Could you tell us just what is going on?
She’s travelling, but at who’s expense? Does she show you reimbursement checks to show they’re paying for it? Is she flying or driving? Has she shown you any proof of her income? If this is a real business, then her tax returns will show it as a separate business, which means she can show proof of how her business is doing without showing you personal documents. Ask her about this. I promise she’ll avoid you or get upset. She won’t want to show you this proof. She may have $7,000 coming in, but for all you know, she may be spending $6,999 on expenses for it. If she’s really doing well and wants you to join her and do well, she should have no issue with showing you proof of her income.
You get excited when talking about a lot of money. Lots of people do, but is it real, or just bait? Is it possible they’re just using the numbers to get you so excited you don’t examine the facts and figures?
That’s an old magican’s and con-man’s trick: get the person so excited they don’t look at the facts and just listen to the sales pitch.
Think of this: If you’re having trouble getting people to listen to presentations, think about what that says. (Why are you giving presentations if you’re not a member? Are they getting you to work for them for free?) What is your upline telling you? Do they say people are eager to use the product? Do they say it sells itself? What do they say about how well the system works?
Then compare it to what you see. Do people want to hear your pitch? Do they want to join? Or do people run from you as if you have the plague? If people don’t want to hear your pitch, think about how they react. Do you want to go into something like that where people shun you when possible and treat you like a pariah where they want to get away or don’t want to hear what you have to say?
Also watch how people respond to your upline. Is this a successful person in the business? Supposedly so, but do people run from her? Do they avoid her when she starts the pitch? I don’t mean people they’ve roped into listening, but people in public when you’re out together.
Do you want to spend your life focused, in all your spare time, on recruiting people every where you go? Do you want a life like they represent without time off when you clock out at the end of the day?
Before I pay the $495.00. I wanted to know if anyone in this blog has dealt with or no anyone who is in either of these MLM? I know in Monavie my upline has moved pretty fast in a year with Monavie making at least $7,ooo per week if not more. She is always traveling and speaking on Monavie. I really like the stuff but have not been able to push it. When I talk to people about either of these people are not interested or relate to the financial times right now. I hate coming of as strong but I get excited when I know people are making a lot of money in this. I am trying to get something that works. Any feed back. Also from YTB Travel the same thing. Trying to get people to our presentations has not been good. Who can go wrong with getting paid to travel and a tax break.
complaining about their broadcasting ads touting serial scammer Ty Coughlin’s reverse funnel system. I was surprised that a seemingly reputable mainstream radio station would tout such garbage.
The sales manager wrote back advising me how this was an “alternate” and legitimate means of generating multiple streams of income that was so powerful, he had just signed up himself, and would soon be ringing in the cash.
It is kind of like when the aliens take over the bodies of humans.
The last time I saw their book, they had some crystal type stuff. kitchen stuff and stuff for the home. It was expensive. I haven’t heard anything about htem in several years so I didn’t even know they were still around.
If you wanna go for the social aspect, that’s fine… but if you do feel pressured by sales pitches, then don’t go. I go to stuff like that when my friends host a party just to get out of the house. And if I see something worthwhile, I’ll get it, but I am able to tune out the “pressure” part of it because I’ve already heard it all before and I know the scoop on MLMs.
Hi – my friend just sent me an invitation to a PRincess House event. I haven’t had time to look up info on it and was wondering if this is anything MLM ish with lots of overpriced products with big markups or if this is something of value to go to. Am I getting pitched or pressured if I go?
And most MLMers aren’t supposed to talk to negative folks.
So do a little research on the product – then ask questions. Many MLMs have peripheral motivational organizations – and generally, their costs far exceed anything the participant can earn by selling the product. Point out negative websites and ask how that kind of information can be helpful (NOT!) in trying to build a business. Are the products found on ebay or craigslist, as disgruntled participants seek to dump their inventories at below-cost prices?? (Again – this can make building a business fairly difficult)
Does your cousin talk about “dreams” – something used to divert one’s attention from the dwindling checkbook balance. There’s no place for “dreams” in a real business – just assets and liabilities and the bottom line.
From reading this forum and others, I’ve come to the conclusion that some people are “Motivational Junkies” and like that artificial “high” found at meetings. And like an addict – there’s not much you can do to change their mind until they’re darn good and ready to listen.
1. It’s helpful to accept that you cannot talk her out of it with logic. The MLM training has it all covered -( everything from questioning your intentions and integrity to labeling you a loser).
2.If she is like most MLMers (I haven’t known but 1 or 2, so this is second hand information), she will come out of it after significant losses and deflated, at which time you should help her get on her feet(not financially). Meanwhile, all you can do is ask some probing questions when you can(the idea is to feed into any doubts she may have herself from time to time)- if you can do it without seeming to come from an intellectually superior position.
3. I recently had a friend’s friend talk up some mlm and the “financial success” so much that I asked her to get back to me when she made her first million. That put an end to my recruitment :).
I’m not and never have been a MLMer, but my parents nearly a decade ago were into some water filter MLM which they ended up losing money on (roped in by friends) — when I brought it up at the time to my parents they yelled at me and called me an arrogant know-it-all (since they lost the money, proving me right, we’ve never talked about it), my aunt and uncle were part of Amway for many years…
Now jump to today…
My cousin (daughter of the Amwayers) has, in the last year, joined the World Ventures MLM. She is a young professional who just landed her first academic position this past year, and is a single mom. Every time my wife and I socialize with her, she works in the MLM somehow into every conversation, making it very uncomfortable. She routinely invites us to her “travel parties”, and has recently gotten her new boyfriend into the MLM.
My question is this: given my experience with my parents, I’m unconvinced that just saying “this is a scam” would result in anything positive occurring — resentment towards me, driving her deeper into the MLM community. What suggestions do MLM survivors have for those of us on the outside looking in? I want to be able to hang out with my cousin, but the MLM thing frankly creeps me (and my wife) out. Do all MLMers eventually learn that they were part of a scam? The other thing I’m worried about is how academics, who she may be pitching this to, would react — I would expect a fairly negative reaction to those who are more skeptical…
The reason I attacked your post is because it seems very dishonest and I have seen this exact thing many time before here by people that are are tying to promote or recuit to their MLM. You state that “We join the business actually to build wider network, keep in touch with friends while making some side-income, and unexpectedly we have earned at around USD 3000”.
You then state “to excell in this business is to be thick skin, positive thinking, persistant, and determined. Just keep introducing, if nobody wants, that’s alright, then move to find other new prospects”. So, you joined mostly to make new acquaintances and friends and accidentally made good money but you have to be thick skinned, positive, persistent and determined. To make new friends? Really?? You say your main purpose is to make new acquaintances/friends but if they don’t like your business you ditch them and just move on? Doesn’t sound very friendly to me. It might just be a cultural misunderstanding but this does not seem to me to be a good way to expand your social network of friends. If this is actually a `side’ income is it actually an income or just revenue? Is there any actual income after expenses? You also say that “Good things are we get to know more ppl with many different characters and from various business backgrounds, and learn new things from them”, but if you just ditch them and move on when they are not interested in your MLM what are you learning from them? I think you just came here to justify/promote/recruit to your MLM. I really don’t think that you could have picked a worse place to do this. This is not a place where we discuss what the best MLM is, it is a place where we discuss which is the worse. As Hal tells you, you might want to read the documents that were presented to you when you joined this blog.
who has bought into to their line of riches while you cure the world of every disease known to man.
Despite your experience, you still give them too much credit. From lotions and potions to my wife’s product – a magical material that will cure what ails you if you buy and wear enough of it all the time – they all exploit the people at the bottom. And if, as you say, they can move a lot of products, if a company really did have a product that were as good as they claim, wouldn’t it make more sense to sell boatloads to WalMart than to sell them one at a time through an untrained sales force of work at home soccer Moms?
By their very nature, MLMs are all scams. It is mathematically assured that most people in an MLM will lose money, and the facts are that over 99% do. Draw out a pyramid, and you will see that no matter what the size of a pyramid, there will always be more people in the very bottom rung, that in ALL of the rungs above it. At some point, any MLM runs out of bottom rungers, and the whole thing collapses, with the majority of people at the bottom and out of luck.
The comp plans are all designed to pay only the mega stars, while the rest are simply customers of overpriced, overhyped and mostly useless products.
This business model should be banned.
Good luck with your research.
My boyfriend and I joined MLM of FFI (used to stand for Fuel Freedom International but now recently it changed name to Forever Freedom Internatinal ) on March 08. We join the business actually to build wider network, keep in touch with friends while making some side-income, and unexpectedly we have earned at around USD 3000. Not bad at all. Don’t know about social-culture in other countries, but here in my own practice, I learn the key to excell in this business is to be thick skin, positive thinking, persistant, and determined. Just keep introducing, if nobody wants, that’s alright, then move to find other new prospects. Don’t let negative inputs from ppl get to you. Becoz this is our side income, so in case this is not successful, well that’s ok. Good things are we get to know more ppl with many different characters and from various business backgrounds, and learn new things from them.
The first was in the early 1970’s when I signed up as an Amway distributor. I didn’t last very long and swore off MLM totally after my one and only demonstartion for a prospect. She ended up buying the ost inexpensive item she could find just to get rid of me. I could actually see her thought process as she made the selection. It was humiliating.
Imagine my surprise when, 20 some odd years later I found myself at an opportunity meeting for ACN. I only went because the friend who invited me was someone I owed a favor to. I went in determined to say no. As they spun out the dream I clung to my Amway memories but as they kept hammering away with “there’s no box of soap to sell” my resolve agve way and I thought I can do this. I spent about 3 and half years chasing every prospect I could. Attending every quarterly meeting. Buying up all the latest recruiting tools. They always had new ones at every regional event.
Reality began to dawn as my residual checks never seemed to grow. The power of the hype began to lose it’s magic and I started to turn from a “red apple” to a “rotten apple”.
Today I am a freelance writer and I am working on a piece about MLM . It seems that this economy is probably a very fertile prospecting ground for these companies. I’m sure it’s a great way to move lots of product and services but I’ve yet to meet anyone who made an average living from this. The super stars of these companies are all millionaires. They seem to be the exceptions.
Would love to hear from anyone who’d like to share their stories. I am not interested in hearing about any new oppotunities. I have no interest in MLM except as it relates to the article I’mworking on. Please do not respond if your looking for prospects.
you still haven’t discovered that it’s not about how YOU perceive it but how it’s pitched to prospects? C’mon.
When employers look for people to hire, they put out a “help wanted” notice (a window sign, an ad in the paper or an announcement on radio or TV, etc.). The people who respond are total strangers, and if you’ve had more than 1 or 2 jobs, you know that some jobs are not completely friendly, to the employee or to the people with whom that employee associates. (Do you know anyone who’s ever worked in telemarketing? There’s a job that annoys a lot of people!)
When an MLM is pitched, they try to wrap it up in descriptions that resemble traditional business models and practices SO THAT it won’t sound like a scheme.
So once again, when you blame the victim (by calling them “naive”), you miss the point and possibly encourage scammers to keep going after those “naive” folks who don’t recognize what they’re doing, because even critics of MLM can’t figure out why the schemes work.
I got invited to ACN by someone I really trusted, and it took me about two years to get over it and out of it. Three if you count my rather slow journey out of a fairly dark pit it put me into.
I made it to ETT, almost ETL, but I ended up looking at some of the MLM information about other companies of long term installment loans with badcredit on the net and extrapolating to ACN. There’s hardly any information out there about them, and they could definitely use someone exposing them.
One of the really interesting things about ACN is that, while they are pretty careful to never actually lie to you, they are very good at misleading you. Heck, I got pretty good at misleading others, but at least I believed that it was good at the time. I got discouraged after seeing a bunch of my friends simply fail with it – it didn’t seem to me that a legitimate business would end up with everyone failing at it.
I have no idea how RVPs and SVPs can sleep at night. I recruited about 18 people myself and that still makes me sick to my stomach.
If you need any info on ACN, contact me.
if someone comes up with a great moneymaking idea, that they would share it with a bunch of strangers whose business model is to annoy their friends and family?
And would any business trust their credit card processing to some non-qualified person who just walked in the door? The reason 99% of MLMers fail to make any money is that there is usually no resale market for their products. Sometimes this is because of their ridiculous pricing, sometimes, like here, there just is no marketable product. Go sell some kind of magic jungle juice or potion – at least you can drink it yourself, which is what most MLMers end up doing.
These MLM’s are like Nigerian money transfer scams. Everyone knows they can’t be real, but enough greedy, misinformed people fall for it to keep them coming.
and with a well-known name behind it – selling credit-card services is TOUGH. I can’t imagine how impossible it would be to get an account based on a casual relationship with an unknown servicer.
My son-in-law is a sales rep for one of the largest card processors in the nation, and he attended school, then served as an “intern” before he was allowed to solicit business on his own. It has taken him 2
years to build a decent income from his accounts – and he works it 40+ hours per week.
The links John provided say it all – it’s simply a scam to get you to shell out lots of money for “leads”.
From what I’ve been reading, it’s a credit card processing company. The thing that raised red flags for me is that she states that they guarantee you will make $5000 in the first 90 days. How is this possible? Has anyone ever head of them? Here is the copy of the email I got:
“Would you be interested in looking at a legit business where it is $271 to get in and $19.95 a month AND they guarantee $5,000 in your first 90 days, because they help you for first 90 days? AND if you don’t make $250.00 in your first year they have a money back guarantee. : -) In Writing……
You are right. This club is not a place for political discourse, but that does not mean it cannot be brought up from time to time. It is appropriate, however, to point out A/Q and its political/religious
Considering the right-leaning mindset of AQMO leaders, it should be expected that people would be surprised when an ad for their company and their “opportunity” shows up on a program like Countdown.
It is neither surprising nor against any rules to mention that here.
Most of them use ad agencies that “bundle” advertising deals for them. They would usually take the extreme step of turning down business only if the company in question is indicted or otherwise known to be a PR disaster.
In this case, I am positive (not certain) that it would be difficult to have these networks remove Quixtar. After all, OUR Elected government considers them a legit company. It pisses me off too, but some of these fights are harder than others …..
how quick people are to bring their partisan political beliefs into any argument they possibly can. Yes, I am aware that Dick Devos ran for governor as a republican and that Scamway leaders in general are pro-republican. So what? Scamway leaders are in general die hard Christians. Does that mean all Christians are implied to be evil? The Fox network doesn’t rip into those with conservative beliefs every chance they get so it is to be implied that they are in league with an evil that is to be named republican? I don’t think that making potentially offensive political or any other kind of slurs helps any of the discussions and healing that this site is intended to provide.
After all we’re here to dissect, dismantle and debase MLM’s aren’t ‘we? 🙂
I watch very little TV and had yet to see the Quixtar ad. As long as I know where to complain, I really did not need to see it. I already know they are a cult of thieves. I just needed to know for sure who dared to run the ad so I can make an inteligent complaint. I challange everyone to contact NBC or whoever dares to air the Quixtar lies. Thanks for the info and God bless. James
PS. I just called the 1-800 number on the video and gave the person who answered a 20 minute ear full of enlightenment. They actually seemed to listen. Maybe a seed of truth was planted. Who knows.
Yes, I’ve seen the ad. They’re also advertising in USA Today and Newsweek. It appears that they’re going for brand recognition. A good move, in my opinion, although they’ll never get very far with it until they divorce themselves from the MLM component of their business. It’s that part of it that has given them the “cult” reputation.
They sell lots of products, but the vast majority of that goes to the very people who are supposed to be selling it. And the tactics used to sell the products to those people are underhanded, at best.
Let A/Q compete in the open market, like everyone else, and see if they thrive or die.
Hope to hear more from you.
I have just seen a Quixtar(sp?) ad here in Texas on NBC. Could not believe it but for the fact that the economy is in the tank and the poor unsuspecting public is desparate. Has anyone else seen it?
By the way since I have never officially introduced myself, I am, Marvin Pasek from Irving, TX. Wasted about $40K (when you consider the “Nikken” cars I leased) in Nikken. Never in Quixtar but Nikken is no different from it or all the others.